Salty's Forum
General Category => Plug / Lure Building Forum => Topic started by: bruce.campo on November 27, 2010, 03:58:00 PM
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OK – so I had a lure completely finished and ready to wire. It has been ‘finished’ for a few weeks now. I noticed that there appeared to be a small ‘bubble’ on the side of the lure, like the paint was lifting. I bit the bullet and decided to sand it down and start over. As I penetrated the lure’s finish (rod thread epoxy), I was then able to easily peel the epoxy, along with the paint and primer off the lure in a single pull, leaving just bare wood. Just as if I were peeling and orange. I did this with my thumb nail. Geez, what’s going on here? I’m assuming I didn’t let the sealer dry. I’m using BLO thinned with spirits. To seal the plug, I immerse the plug in the BLO mixture overnight. I’m pretty sure I let the plug dry for a few days. I guess my question is “how long should I let it dry?”. Maybe a better question is, “how do I know when the sealer dry and ready for primer”. Should I wipe the plug off with spirits after it is dried to get any of the oils off the outside of the plug? Do I need to lightly sand to help with the primer adhesion? I have a few other lures complete, and none others have shown signs of bubbling. Should I be concerned with the other lures? How could I tell if they too have similar problems?
Thanks guys for your help here.
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overnight is too long. I would consider that lure ruined now. Will probably never dry....You should be letting these dry for 5-7 days minimum....
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Well, there goes lure #2. Same results... I'm going to strip these down and "bake" them under light for a few days to see if that will help.
Thanks for the feedback Scott. I imagine most will bubble eventually. you can smell the BLO after I stripped the lures.
to say I'm p%ssed is an understatement....
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I would chalk that up to learning at this point. Overnight soaking is much too long. If you soaked a sponge til it sopped up all the water it could then it would take forever to dry...your lure is no different. It soaked up a huge amount of solvent....it may not ever dry now. Let them sit for a month or so in a very warm place. See what happens.
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Bruce,
I had the same problem. You can search all the sights and get 15 different answers about how long to soak with each material. AS a hobbiest, it would be nice to have something in writing (based on the type of wood used in the kits) for those of us who just make a few lures and want to do it the "traditional way" (if there is such a thing).
I have about 20 kit lures that I still have drying from a 24 hour soak in BLO/MS mix. Won't make that mistake again...
One batch is about a month dried and looking fine. The other is only a week old so we'll see how long they take to dry. I have a heated garage so they can sit there as long as needed...However, no other kits get started until then. Like many here, I can afford the lures but cannot afford mistakes like that..I'll let you know how mine dry. It is an oil but it also sets up as the lighter ends fraction off. That's why it becomes a glob in an open container. The trick is making the same thing happen with teh soaked lure so that it solidifies and seals.
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And now you know why I say what I do on the pictorial page. What works for some does not work for others.
I still recommend multiple dips of sanding sealer, lacquer preferred. Follow it up with a coat of Bin primer in red spray can. scuff then paint.
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Bill - although making mistakes is disappointing, I do agree with Salty, as this is part of the learning process. I have tried to find sanding sealer (as recommended), but haven't been able to find it. I had BLO and mineral spirits in my basement so, I tried it. I'm OK with BLO, just need to moderate my dipping time. I guess I look at it like fishing. you can't give explicit dates/times/tides/lures to catch fish. And if you could, part of the fun, is figuring it out on your own (with some guidance of course). That's why I like this board. Advise is there, but there is nothing better than experience. And boy am I getting experience :). Imagine if Salty gave explicit advise on the board and someone screwed up following Salty's advise. I can just hear the posts now lamblasting the advise. So... I' like it this way. I screwed up, got some good advise, and I'll try again. I don't expect Salty to tell me exactly how long to dip my plugs. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the viscosity of the solution I made up, and how would he know. So now I've got a 1 in 24 chance in getting it right (Somewhere between 1 hour and 24 hours). the way I'm going, I'll need 24 plugs to figure it out :). Anyhow Bill - I"m sure you and I could exchange notes and learn together, and isn't that what is is REALLY all about?
Now, where's that mesh so I can start trying fish scales. I think my wife's wedding vail would make perfect fish scales...
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Bingo. I can't even get people to take the hook guards off the hooks they complain they lose fish then find out they're still on :)
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I use "The Handyman"method (that's what I call it). Zinsser, Bulls Eye,Unerversal Sanding Sealer, shellac base 100% wax free. Product #00851, Lowes stocks it. There is a sealing thread on page #2 on this forum. Handy has a post there. It has worked well for me... Tom C.
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Bruce, Scott, and others. Please don't take my post the wrong way. I'm not blaming anyone nor do I think there needs to be explicit instructions. However, like you I had a problem finding the various sealers discussed and resorted to BLO/MS (I had it as well). What would be nice is a bit more info about soaking, if a person chooses to use that method. For instance: "The kits are made from XXX type of wood so you should adjust your soak time accordingly." Different woods have various absorption rates. That way, if someone wanted to do that it is still on them. I accept my mistake for soaking the lures too long (Hey...its not like I tried to cram a lead weight into a too-small hole with a hammer!! ;D ) My point about not starting anymore is that I will now seek out the proper dipping sealer so I can do future one right.
Scott has been a great help. It took me a while but I found the right primer (I learned there are three types...blue, red and goald labels). I'll keep asking questions as I need to and I'm sure both he and others on this board will continue to be a great help! I do thank everyone for that. As a hobbyist, putting out several hundred to build a few lures...and then having problems occur...understandibly makes one reconsider. It's not about getting it perfect the first time. I don't expect that (well, maybe I do..) it is about succeeding on some level.
As to the lambasting posts after giving advice that does not work for someone...that is to be expected in today's society regardless of how much help one gives. You have to have thick skin to be in business and have a board like this. A very dear friend of mine ran a board for surf fishing on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. I learned about thick skin from him. It goes right to your statement about when, where and how to fish...
I found the Thule for scales...I mentioned using my daughter's veil (she gets married in three weeks) and that went over real well, as you can imagine...thankfully the dog house is heated with cable...
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you mean you DON'T hammer the lead weights in???? oh...
Bill - I'm heading to lowes tomorrow to get some sealer for the next batch of lures I'm ordering from Salty. I just purchased some kits as Christmas gifts for my friends but am having seconds thoughts now that I've runied a few plugs... :)
So Bill, how long were you soaking your plugs?
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I soaked them just around 24 hours but I'm thinking that if I can't find a sealer for dipping I may try somewhere around 2-4 hours followed by a good drying time. There was a good thread about penetration but it confused me regarding time for soaking to get the level needed to protect the wood. Most look fine. Some 2 oz. sandeel swimmers look like sponges. If they don't dry they have enough oil to make nice Christmas candles... :D
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or you could put one in your woodstove and heat your house for a whole night
:)
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If you are cutting blo with min spirits then a soak of 10 minutes with any woods followed by a dry of 4-5 days and either a second dipping or a quick dipping into sanding sealer cut down slightly will prep for primer.
Use a oil based primer. several light coats of Bin gold can is best. Requires sanding....red can does not. Red is shellac/lacquer based, gold is oil/alkyd based.
Let dry for 2 days in warm environment before painting. If you use createx let it air dry for 3-4 hours then heat set with a hair dryer between coats.
clear with devcon 2 ton 30 minute epoxy, or envirotex.
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And if something happens I'm not responsible because I said this :)
We'll blame it on numbnuts :D
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Scott,
You definitely made me laugh! I'm sure the lures will dry out eventually. If only I had a wood stove. That is one thing I miss with my new house. If I need to I can always use some xlene or alcohol to draw the oil out and dry it. I'll just have to dip in a sanding sealer. One problem I have is that I live in Home Depot country. Lowes are hard to find so when people say you can get stuff there I have to make a minimum 30 minute drive (if traffic flows). Heck, even the Home Depot is 15 miles away. That is the breaks with living in a small fishing community...
I will say that I looked again today and I got great penetration with the BLO!
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Bill i'm not sure that just wiping would work, it may just give the stuff a better pattern to the surface.
One good idea is to weigh them now on a gram scale...then check them in a week or two. See if they lose weight..that would be solvent flashing off...
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Thanks! I didn't think to weigh them. I just got into the office and was reading about BLO to see how it would chemically fraction off the lighter ends (the joys of working with hazmat!!). I doubt wiping them would do enough. It would probably take a soaking and that would be disastrous for the wood grain.
I think I'm only down two lures as the others look pretty good. However, I'll take your suggestion and weight them as soon as I get home. Thanks!
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I've had my two lures under a high intensity light for a few days and I can definilty see (and smell) the difference. Wood has taken on a much lighter hue than before. I'll continue to leave them under the light and won't do anything with the lures until later in the winter (just to be sure).
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Bruce,
I put mine under a high intensity light as well but had to watch it becasue of the heat. Suprisingly, the two 2 oz. sandeel swimmers were the worse for absorbing. The three 1 oz. slopeheads were next in line. However, the 2 oz. spooks and the micro spooks didn't absorb that much. They are dried nicely and the heat did little to change their color.
I'm getting ready to head to the reloading bench and get my scales so I can take a measurement. Will let you know. I think the heat is definitely helping. My research shows that that is about the only way unless you can soak them in drier (but that would ruin the wood grain.)
Lesson learned...don't soak as long. Time to order some replacements...
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Sandeel swimmers and 1 oz surfsters were Port Orford Cedar. Surprised to hear they sucked anything up. The 2oz spooks were ayc, the micro spooks are birch.
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They turned a beautiful dark color. I almost just epoxied them as they were because the wood took on such a pretty hue. It was interesting seeing how each soaked up the BLO. If I remember, I'll get some pictures...
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Scott,
Here's the run down on the various plugs that were soaked for a 24 hour period (all readings in ounces):
.75 oz. Micro Spooks
.425; .432; and .3925
2oz. Topwater Glide
1.407 and 1.536
1 oz. Lil Bugger Surfster
.694; .713; and .709
2 oz. A40Jr
1.111
All of these are measured without the weights installed...just wood and BLO/MS
Do the numbers sound right or do they sound "spongy"??? :D
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the micro spooks sound a bit heavy but the others seem ok? Don't sound like they sucked up too much?
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They're all very very close to each other.
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I am a first time builder and after reading this posting wonder if a product I use in furniture woodworking will work to seal the plugs as well. I have been using Zinsser's Bulls Eye Seal Coat (a sand and seal product) Would this be usable?
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That's the stuff that is recommended, Capt. Randy. However, being bullheaded I had to go with an older method.
Scott, Thanks! It didn't seem like they absorbed all that much to me. I'm going to give them another couple of days and try a seal coat of Zinser before teh white basecoat...
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CaptRandy,
Handyman has a post on page 2 of this forum about "Zinsser Seal Coat".
I followed his method and it works well. My first this past sring,no problems.
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Thanks for responses, I use it on hardwood floors and furniture but was not sure it would be appropriate for sealing plugs.
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CB - I see you and I were poured from the same mold. I have my sander sealer and it works GREAT!
Anyone have other uses for BLO?
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Bruce,
I let mine dry out and they lightened up a little. They appear to be sealed nicely. However, to be sure I dipped them in sanding sealer yesterday. Now they really look great! Since I used a small town hardware store I had to buy two gallons of sealer so from now on that is the ticket (at least until I do the floors in my relative apartment).
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INteresting - I did the same... Sanding sealer... Let dry again for a week or so. I just finished out the two lures. Everything is fine! Paint is not peeling, adhearing just great!
Say CB... my floors need a once-over...
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We can do that! I've got enough sealer...