Salty's Forum
General Category => Plug / Lure Building Forum => Topic started by: Salty on December 31, 2009, 07:40:34 AM
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I get alot of questions on sealing kit lures. Last year I added a section on the side of the kit pictorial page about things to do.
One of the best ways to tell if you have sealed your lures properly is to sacrifice one or even simulate one with a piece of scrap wood with holes drilled in it...something as little as a battery drill and a 1/4" bit will suffice.... dip it and then cut it open. Good sealer absorption is shown by the arrows. If your not getting this kind of penetration then your either too thick or using the wrong product to seal with. You want to make sure you get good penetration so that you don't get paint lifting, bubbling, water/weight absorption etc.
Those that do choose to use any of the drying oils be VERY cautious and follow the recommendations on the can regarding disposal of your rags etc.
Alot of people ask how long to wait before painting them. If you are using a drying oil to seal them, I recommend no less than 4-5 days. Keep them in a warm place away from flames etc.
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I've been using two different techniques. Haven't done any testing so don't know which one (if any ) is better. 1.) Boiled linseed oil cut with turpentine to insure deeper penetration and left to soak overnight followed by several days of drying. 2.) Minwax Wood Hardener, flood the wood until it stops absorbing, ready for prime in 2-4hrs. This works well on the softer woods.
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Had an email last night from someone that was having an issue with bleeding. Linseed and mineral spirits for sealer with some other primer. Stuff bled within 2 days of painting. Sealer is not working obviously...Once a lure is sealed nothing should be able to penetrate that barrier.
Seaviewer be careful with that Minwax wood hardener, it's nasty stuff but yes works well...I'd let that dry longer than that though. I used that when I first started.
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Dear Salty,
I've gotten some plugs from some high end builders, no names mentioned, on a few of them the clear is peeling off like a shell. improper sealing I assume. first they got foggy then you can peelem like an orange. :)
numbnuts
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yea let's not mention names I don't need to have a shitfest...There's ALOT of that out there Jim. 1/2 these guys don't test their stuff. It's what I been saying for years...a lathe, bandsaw and a drillpress...instant plug business. Like you and bannerama ::)
Most likely that clear peeling is a failed adhesion all the way to the primer...
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paints not peeling, just the clear. kinda pisses you off when you spend the money and this happens. If it were a plug I built it's to be expected ::)
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LOL you should see the pic on my wall. It looks like a freikin pineapple with the stuff peeling off in every direction. A plug sold by a lure builder who was in the paint business to boot. The guy has changed sealer more than I've changed my underwear ;D
Well maybe not that much but you get the idea :)
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I would think the sealer would effect the paint as well, no?
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not necessarily. Got to check adhesion of each layer and as a whole. Picture looking sideways at a sponge...your top coat goes into the holes that can go all the way to the bottom of the sponge.
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With all that said........what is the preferred method of sealing a lure? After sealing I use Zinsser Cover Stain Primer only because I have it and use it extensively at work. This stops any tanin bleeding. Also, what problems are to be expected if the wood is only primed with no prior sealing. I've done a few with 2-3 coats of Cover Stain only then paint & epoxy.
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If it's only primed and not sealed first then chances are it's going to waterlog and possibly split. The exceptions to this are Alaskan Yellow Cedar and Port Orford Cedar...those are very dense already because they are slow growth trees...They tend not to take water on as fast...
Preferred method? Man there's so many different ways of sealing a lure...
Problem really comes down to what you can use in your situation... solvent based stuff is nasty to work with...not recommended for home use without extreme ventilation and care.
Solvent stuff that people use and that works...Val oil, Boiled Linseed Oil/min spirits (very dangerous), Waterlox, CPES epoxy, Spar Varnish, Tung Oil(also dangerous), propionate pellets/acetone(dangerous), Minwax wood hardener(rots your insides), lacquer sanding sealer
Water based stuff has come a long way...it's not however fool proof...
Water based/less toxic stuff, Emtech em series, polyurethane, sanding sealers, epoxies
Water stuff has a tendency to raise grain, takes a long time to dry/catalyze.. But it's safer..
It's all got to work together as one part...sealer, primer, paint, topcoat. Any one of the above can have a serious effect on what the previous layers do.
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I myself now seal with Etex Lite. I warm the plug and Etex then apply, I either use eyedropper or spoon to run through holes then run a wire or pipe cleaner through.
With clear pealing it could also be because of the paint. What many folks don't know is if you use an acrylic paint it should be(needs to be) heated to fully cure paint. Without heat you will get a skin on it but it will not be waterproof like acrylic should be. Waht can also happen is this paint just never fully curing can still give off moisture so the top coat never fully adheares. Createx is also an acrylic, If you are to check the actual application manual for the acrylics you will see they need to be heated.
After much research I found that none of these water based acrylics ever fully cures unless you put heat to it, maybe around 15 min. at around 130 to 150 degrees. You need heat to cross-link the molecular bonds in the polymer base, which is how the acrylic permanently sets and becomes waterproof.
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ahhh......where's my daughter's Easy Bake Oven when you need it?
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great idea.
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oh well......generaly after my plug is all drilled out..i submerge it in sanding sealer[zinsser bulls eye sealcoat] generaly ill wait till the bubbles stop comming out of the plugs......a good rule of thumb for the timing is to knock back 3 or 4 beers....thats plenty of time....by then the plug have absorbed the seal coat...just hang to dry wipe any drips off let the plugs dry over night...........and your ready for painting
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oh well......generaly after my plug is all drilled out..i submerge it in sanding sealer[zinsser bulls eye sealcoat] generaly ill wait till the bubbles stop comming out of the plugs......a good rule of thumb for the timing is to knock back 3 or 4 beers....thats plenty of time....by then the plug have absorbed the seal coat...just hang to dry wipe any drips off let the plugs dry over night...........and your ready for painting
I have used the Zinnser sanding sealer but as a pre primer coat, after 60/40 or tung oil seal coat. I don't have can in front of me but is the sanding sealer waterproof? If it is not water proof then to me it may not be the best sealer for water.
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Interlux Paint Co. makes a product called Clear Wood Sealer. Part No. is 1026.
We have been using it here at the Boat Yard for years. I think it would be great
as a first coat on any wood prior to priming ang painting
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Waterlox makes a decent product for sealing also but have not tried their finish, I'm not sure the finish is right for the application. It is their marine line Waterlox Marine sealer I also know a few guys who seal with West Systems but said said the West is not the best on the finish though. I like West for their epoxy adhesives as even their 5 min is waterproof
So far I have not seen or used a finish(topcoat) that I like better than Etex, Envirormental Tech also make a product called Ultra glo that rocks, it does have more odor than the Etex Lite though. I do think the Ultra-Glo is the older product which is much more irratating than the Envirotex Lite. It is also harder to find and must be applied in a well vented area
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oh well......generaly after my plug is all drilled out..i submerge it in sanding sealer[zinsser bulls eye sealcoat] generaly ill wait till the bubbles stop comming out of the plugs......a good rule of thumb for the timing is to knock back 3 or 4 beers....thats plenty of time....by then the plug have absorbed the seal coat...just hang to dry wipe any drips off let the plugs dry over night...........and your ready for painting
You might also consider a small vacuum chamber --powered by either a hand pump or electric pump. It will pull all those bubbles out instantly and pull more air out than just submerging the plugs.
Regards, Mark
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what is the absolute best sealing process for yellow birch? cost is not a factor, time is not a factor, process is not a factor. I have tried two different ways and still I'm getting cracking, expansion, and lifting with my plugs
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Bunker I don't think there is an "absolute best", it's dependent on what you use for paint etc...what works for you. If your getting water intrusion then your not sealing long enough or with something that is compatible with your paint.
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say bunk wad up yo!!! heres what works for me WATERLUX MARINE wood sealer.....give them a good soaking and most and they must cure well...... drying is the other factor........i know you use urathains .......im not sure if you use epoxy finish ....like flex coat........that also seals your plugs and protects you paint................good luck..........and nice catch on the tuna